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Exposing the Straw Men of New Atheism: Part 4

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October 22, 2010 Tags: Science & Worldviews

Today's entry was written by Karl Giberson. You can read more about what we believe here.

Exposing the Straw Men of New Atheism: Part 4

This is the fourth installment in a series inspired by exchanges with Jerry Coyne. Readers might want to read the first in the series for orientation.

The third straw man I want to examine is the claim about philosophical consistency, which is used repeatedly to argue that science and religion are incompatible. Accommodationists like myself and my colleagues at BioLogos claim that a scientist can be religious. Francis Collins can go to church without having a logic-induced seizure or needing to put his fingers in his ears and singing “La La La La” while the sermon is being preached. But, according to Coyne, he can do this only by being philosophically inconsistent, and that is automatically bad.

A rather dreadful analogy circulates on this point, comparing a religious scientist to a priest who is a pedophile. New Atheists argue that just as we know that the existence of pedophiliac priests does not establish a philosophical compatibility between Catholicism and pedophilia, so too the existence of religious scientists does not establish that religion and science are philosophically compatible. I did my best to demolish that malignant analogy in a recent piece on The Huffington Post.

What I want to look at here is the question of philosophical consistency and exactly how high a pedestal it should be placed on. Is it the case that people or ideas that are philosophically inconsistent have no credibility?

There are two things to note here: 1) science is itself plagued by some deep internal philosophical inconsistencies so the black pot of science should exercise caution in noting the color of other people’s kettles; and 2) philosophical consistency is an ambiguous virtue at best.

For centuries, philosophers have tried to establish a philosophical foundation for science. Science, from its inception, was impressively adept at acquiring knowledge and, in contrast to warring religious factions, seemed fully capable of achieving agreement among its practitioners. Interest in how science worked ran high, both for its own sake, and to illuminate the dark corridors of other fields. A companion discipline called the “philosophy of science” sprang up with the goal to figure out the rules of science—the scientific method—and perhaps create a prescription that could be used by anyone seeking knowledge.

All of the earliest scientists—Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Descartes—addressed questions of scientific method, explaining to their generation how nature should be investigated. One of the more articulate discussions was that of Francis Bacon, who argued that science was an inductive enterprise. Scientists should free their minds of preconceptions and bow humbly before the facts of the world, which will assemble themselves on the blank slates of their minds into generalizations, uncontaminated by the prejudices of the scientist.

Bacon’s scientific method had a certain appealing purity, but everybody knew that science just didn’t work that way. Scientists simply could not pursue facts in isolation from some idea guiding the selection of those facts. (Imagine going into a town where everyone was sick from a mysterious illness and gathering information with no preconceptions about what sorts of things that cause illnesses. You would record birthdays, favorite songs, shopping patterns, vacation schedules and recent eating habits with no idea which of those disconnected facts were more likely to be relevant.) Subsequent efforts to improve on Bacon failed to produce a satisfactory philosophy of science. Perhaps the most interesting of these failures was that of Karl Popper, who argued almost the exact opposite of Bacon.

Popper advanced the idea that scientists should creatively conjure whatever imaginative explanation suited their fancy and then try to falsify it. Any conjecture that could, in principle, be falsified met Popper’s criterion for being a scientific claim. Popper was quite influential and, in a 1982 court ruling in Little Rock, Arkansas, Judge Overton ruled that creation science was not scientific because it could not be falsified. (He also had other critiques.)

Philosophers of science were critical of Overton’s decision and produced arguments why Popper’s falsification was inadequate. In fact, Popper should have known better for there were ample historical examples making this clear. Newton’s theory of gravity was, in fact, “falsified” by observations that ran counter to it—Saturn’s orbit didn’t follow the law of gravity. But he and his fellow “Newtonians” stubbornly refused to surrender and soon the falsifying observations were shown to have been misinterpreted—unknown planet Uranus was occasionally disrupting Neptune’s orbit. The chief objection to falsification is that there exists no simple way to isolate a particular idea from its larger context to in order to try and falsify it all by itself. Most scientific ideas are embedded in a network of supporting ideas and, if the idea “fails,” it is hard to specify exactly where the failure occurred.

Most philosophers of science have now abandoned arguments trying to specify the rules of science. Thus there is no specified philosophical framework for science to be juxtaposed against another set of ideas. (Anticipating wild cheering from constructivists, I hasten to point out that this does not imply that “anything goes.” What it does imply is that the “boundary” that separates science from non-science is not well defined. Ideas far from that boundary can be labeled science or non-science without ambiguity.)

Things get even worse when we look more closely at particular scientific ideas in light of each other. There is a widely known contradiction in physics between General Relativity—the science of the very large—and Quantum Mechanics—the science of the very small. In certain circumstances, like black holes, they contradict each other by predicting incompatible things. To believe in the truth of things that contradict each other is the very definition of philosophical inconsistency.

Coyne is certainly free to disparage religious believers for being philosophically inconsistent but he needs to know that every physicist in the scientific community, in embracing both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, is also forced to be philosophically inconsistent. The physics of the 20th century turned out to be riddled with these sorts of problems. Neils Bohr noted this famously when he said: “There are trivial truths and there are great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true.”1

I don’t want to over emphasize this point and end up creating my own straw man argument. Coyne is right that there are important and profound tensions between the scientific and religious ways of understanding the world—tensions that do not simply go away by noting that science has been unable to articulate its own rules so that they can be applied in all investigations without ambiguity. It would be an egregious straw man argument to leap from this argument to the conclusion that scientific and religious truth claims are comparably problematic. Religious claims are much more challenging.

However, I think it is fair to say that there is no simple a priori argument that scientific and religious ways of thinking are incompatible. If you look at the reasons why some cosmologists endorse the existence of multiple universes, they bear a faint resemblance to the reasons why some believers endorse the existence of God.

1. Editor's note: Bohr was saying, in a paradoxical way, that contradictory things can both be true.


Karl Giberson directs the new science & religion writing program at Gordon College in Boston. He has published more than 100 articles, reviews and essays for Web sites and journals including Salon.com, Books & Culture, and the Huffington Post. He has written seven books, including Saving Darwin, The Language of Science & Faith, and The Anointed: Evangelical Truth in a Secular Age.

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Josh Foreman - #37081

October 28th 2010

4.  These documents are part of a long cultural tradition that I was raised in and have found comfort and peace within it.  Whatever amount of wish fulfillment is involved, this merely shows that metaphysical positions are fundamentally statements of one’s hope.  Because they are interpretive exercises they will inevitably be driven by the personality that is doing the interpretation.  This is only a problem if there is a better alternative.  That is, if there is a prima facie reading of reality that requires no personal interpretation or appeals to the consensus of a chosen authority.  I personally don’t see how this is possible, but I’m open to any suggestions.

5.  They propose an explanation for the universe that covers what science never can.  An atheist may not feel a pressing need for ultimate concerns such as origins of time/space/matter or a transcendent grounding for morality and personal purpose, but most people do.


Josh Foreman - #37082

October 28th 2010

This may be because atheists are a more highly evolved form of humanity, or maybe because something inside them is broken.  I suspect it’s more to do with personality and hopes.  To be clear, I’m not proposing that these concerns for answers to the big questions provide evidence for the veracity of Biblical scriptures.  I’m saying the scriptures are more profound than a Hungarian water walker because they provide answers to those felt needs. 

As I said, any of these items are easily dismissed individually.  But when they are lived and experienced they form a gestalt web that brings a new interpretive framework that is hard to dismiss.  But because the process is interior it is not easily subjected to scientific tools of examination.
“explain what could be added to the JAP article which would convince you of its veracity.”
A personal existential experience with the Hungarian that radically reorients my life towards love of others and away from selfishness.


Robert - #37091

October 28th 2010

Frank- I truly apologize for misquoting you, was not my intent at all. Shows my fallibility eh??  :D I think Josh answered some of your queries much as i would have. I do think my referring to the historical context of Jesus coming being prophesied about and done so in a non-contradictory and cohesive manner lays out why i believe the Bible more than i would the JAP article. I realize as you pointed out Frank I am seeking to speak to skeptics and those who do not readily accept Jesus as is. This is why I said we need corroboration by eyewitnesses, as well as help from geology, archaeolgoy and philosophy. Another key point i would make to you, the JAP uis very limited in its context. If it were able to be repeated a few times using al lthe criteria you stated in the exact same way as the Bible has done….. I would be willing to accept it.

I share with you in your *holding pattern* about such claims.  You ask what is probable and what does the evidence suggest??? As i look at creation, what i see is ample evidence.


Frank S - #37187

October 28th 2010

Hi Josh,

I notice a misperception here. You are speaking as if I do not understand what it is like to be a Christian. I was raised Christian, and I indeed understand your point of view on both the intellectual and emotional levels.

You emphasize that you are not offering proof. But we never have proof in the absolute sense (mathematics excluded). The best we can have are good reasons. Being rational is nothing more than being reasonable—having a sense of ratio, a sense of proportion.

As you have anticipated, I can easily dismiss your arguments because they apply equally to an adherent of most any religion. Go through your points 1-5 and imagine how a Muslim could express similar arguments which favor his point of view. He would, for instance, cite his favorite Islamic apologetical tract in place of McDowell.

In retrospect the JAP example is moot because it assumes that evidence is of central interest. However in this case it is not evidence which ultimately matters. Instead, it is the sense of purposefulness, transcendence, and all-around good feelings which play the central role, with these things being mistaken for evidence.


Frank S - #37188

October 28th 2010

Therefore a more appropriate thought experiment would be for you to imagine a Christian who has recently converted to a religion based upon a figure in Hungary who was believed to have to walked on water. He explains the sense of beauty, truth, transcendence, and wonder he has found while following the teachings of this Hungarian miracle-worker. He says it far exceeds what he felt when he was a Christian. He knows in his bones that he has found the truth.

When we show him the evidence that the water-walking stories evolved gradually over time with contributions from unknown authors, his response is to tell us just how awesome his religion makes him feel and how great his life has become. In fact he’s not the least bit interested in pursuing the evidence we present. He does, however, meticulously read the apologetical literature of his religion, which he confidently cites.

Based on his testimony, would you convert to this Hungarian religion? What if his personal story was multiplied a million-fold? Would it persuade you to ignore the obvious problems with the water-walking claims?


Frank S - #37189

October 28th 2010

I sense another common misperception at work here: that non-belief entails hopelessness and/or purposelessness and/or meaninglessness and/or a lack of wonder and transcendence, and without religion those would engulf one’s life. That is not true. In fact I have found nonbelievers to be just as in tune with purpose, meaning, and wonder, including an appreciation for the numinous.

I am accustomed to the veiled contempt with which Christians evoke these misperceptions, but the suggestion that I am “broken” may be a new low. Nobody on Earth would think that “atheists are a more highly evolved form of humanity”. Therefore, according to your dichotomy, those who do not believe as you do are broken.

I recognize that you most likely did not mean to insult. The reason I bring this up is to help you become aware of your prejudices, or at least motivate you to bottle them up more effectively.


Frank S - #37190

October 28th 2010

Robert, I still think you are assuming too much. Have you learned about the formation of the Bible? Do you realize how many thousands of fragments of these codices we have found, and what their differences reveal? Historians pretty well understand the formation of the Old Testament prophecies and the motivations which were likely behind them (e.g., Marcion).

Even the most elementary introduction to historical criticism of the Bible should convince you that the gospels were not eyewitness accounts. The topic is a long one, but just to get you started: where was the eyewitness when Jesus was talking to Satan? Some guy hiding behind a tree?

Like the theoretical convert to the Hungarian religion, you are unfamiliar with the basic evidence which runs contrary to your established beliefs.


Gregory - #37193

October 28th 2010

Hi Folks,

Just a quick jump-in here. Frank wrote: “You are speaking as if I do not understand what it is like to be a Christian. I was raised Christian, and I indeed understand your point of view on both the intellectual and emotional levels.”

‘Been there, done that’ is easily over-stretched. Something that happened in the past is not the same as something happening now. *IF*, the Holy Spirit moves in the lives of religious believers, then a person’s rejection of religion, of Christianity, may indeed mean they have chosen (in a non-providential sense) to cut themselves off from ‘knowledge’ or ‘reality’ that nevertheless still exists. So, to Frank’s response, I think it would be fair to say, he does “not understand what it is like to be a Christian” *now*.

“Nobody on Earth would think that “atheists are a more highly evolved form of humanity”. - Frank S.

Actually, a significant number of people think this through the idea of ‘social evolution’ or ‘evolution of ideas’ (a view I don’t subscribe to). For example, Frank’s thought experiment involves the view “water-walking stories evolved gradually over time.” But stories are intentional human acts. They don’t naturally ‘evolve’ like bacteria do.


Gregory - #37200

October 28th 2010

In other words, there’s a view out there among some people, especially those who adhere to the ideology of ‘scientism,’ which cannot be stressed too much to people in ‘the most scientific nation in the world,’ that religion and being religious is *anything but* progressive. Once one believes in a transcedent and immanent God, according to this view, they become backwards and reject the ‘most important knowledge,’ i.e. scientific knowledge. Iow, they become ‘primitive.’

However, when speaking on the level of human beings, this is quite obviously not true. Indeed, I’m sure many people on this list have witnessed ‘progress’ or (in psycholgical terms) ‘development’ after a person converts and becomes a person of faith, of religion. It may be in their attitude, their relationships, their charity, or their work ethic. This counts as ‘personal progress’ toward a better life.

The ideology of ‘evolutionism’ posits that *only* scientific knowledges lead to progress; that the ‘more scientific’ and ‘more rational’ a person is, the better (i.e. more evolved). In reality, the results don’t always play out this way and often show this viewpoint to be false.


Frank S - #37213

October 28th 2010

Gregory, suppose this hypothetical follower of the Holy Hungarian chastises us for not converting as he did, saying that the only reason we don’t see The Truth is because we are sinfully rejecting the teaching. We aren’t allowing the Secret Sauce into our hearts, he says. Would you say that is a reasonable argument?

“Evolve” seems to be a sensitive word for you, but I could have equally used “developed” or “changed over the years” with regard to the Hungarian miracle accounts.

Suppose we possess three stories of the Hungarian’s water-walking: one has a basic description of the feat, another has the same description but adds, “and then he raised his hands as thunder was heard”, while a third account adds a lightning strike to the thunder. This is an example of how stories change over time, and it is one of the factors scholars use to evaluate and date manuscripts (though not definitive on its own).

The point is that the hypothetical religion does not have a pristine account of the Holy Hungarian, set down once and for all. These are changing, evolving texts subject to the influences of the religion’s devotees. This is contrary to what our hypothetical devotee believes, and he doesn’t accept this fact.


Frank S - #37216

October 28th 2010

Gregory, I am definitely against “evolutionism” and “scientism” as you have defined it. I am certain every secular person I know would reject them as morally repugnant. However that probably will not change your attitude toward those who do not believe as you do.

Are you a creationist? That would explain your use of those words.


Gregory - #37218

October 28th 2010

No, I’m not a ‘creationist,’ though I do believe in creation and creativity.

The two main issues I raised were to fizzle the ‘been there, done that’ attitude of knowledge and belief and to acknowledge that yes, some, even many atheists do think they are ‘more highly evolved.’ This is similar to the attitude Talcott Parsons used to suggest U.S.A. is the ‘most evolved’ nation in the world, back in 60s/70s.

Scientism is a serious problem in many ‘western’ countries and unfortunately, due to the scarcity of classes in philosophy and sociology of science, not many people know how to effectively deal with it.

I’m glad to hear you are against both ‘evolutionism’ and ‘scientism’. I wonder why you find them ‘morally repugnant’, if not on sociological grounds. But please don’t feel compelled to answer that. I was merely jumping in on this thread…

...and now I’ll jump back out.

Cheers,
Gregoy

p.s. I am a ‘secular’ person too, in the sense that Charles Taylor describes in his monumental “A Secular Age.” This of course doesn’t mean I am not religious. It means the ‘conditions of belief’ have changed. One is not forced to be a Christian or a Buddhist in ‘secular’ countries, it is a person’s choice.


Josh Foreman - #37224

October 28th 2010

Hi Frank.  Thanks for engaging.  I hope you don’t mind if I do the quote/reply format.
“You are speaking as if I do not understand what it is like to be a Christian.”
I was not presuming anything.  As I noted, Christianity is an interior a-scientific mode.  As such it is impossible to define with any specificity.  We can compare notes, but the language game makes even this dubious.  I seriously doubt your experience with Christianity was much like mine, and mine is not like it was 5 years ago. 
“The best we can have are good reasons. Being rational is nothing more than being reasonable—having a sense of ratio, a sense of proportion.”
I agree with this.  I would even go one further and say that math and logic cannot be proven due to the inherent fallibility of the human mind.  Though, like you, I accept contingent claims with more consensus as more trustworthy.  Now with this established we have to examine what kinds of reasons are “good” for what kinds of beliefs.  A materialist will discount all the warm fuzzies as elctro-chemical signals, so there is really NO good reason for faith in any


Josh Foreman - #37225

October 28th 2010

metaphysic concept.  My reply is that any and every organizing principle a person brings to bear on their reality is equally no good.  In other words, all philosophy is metaphysics and as such meaningless to brute material.  Yet every materialist is arbitrarily assigns values and organizing principles to their actions and beliefs with no justification for doing so besides the consensus of other humans who are equally arbitrarily positing values and principles. 
“Go through your points 1-5 and imagine how a Muslim could express similar arguments which favor his point of view.”
Of course he could.  The question is, as you stated, are his reasons good?  This is something that you and I have only partial access to.  As I said, we can examine the parts of his faith that intersect with time/space/ matter.  And we can examine the inner-consistency of his belief.  What we cannot do, even if we are Muslim, is experience his belief and the minute, second-by-second interaction of his faith on his world.  It is in this interior space where “good reasons” are justified.  I agree with you that these reasons can be undone if they do not match the shared reality we all inhabit.


Josh Foreman - #37226

October 28th 2010

“However in this case it is not evidence which ultimately matters. Instead, it is the sense of purposefulness, transcendence, and all-around good feelings which play the central role, with these things being mistaken for evidence.”
Again, we have fundamentally different ontologies, so what constitutes evidence will be different.  Just remember that to affirm your materialistic ontology is begging the question.  And let’s not forget that I did mention the kinds of falsifiable evidence that science is so good at as both informative to theological claims and -as has often been the case- perfectly justified in disproving theological claims.  So don’t try to pull this “religion is ONLY about feelings.” Stuff.  This is not the argument I am advancing.


Josh Foreman - #37227

October 28th 2010

“In fact he’s not the least bit interested in pursuing the evidence we present. He does, however, meticulously read the apologetical literature of his religion, which he confidently cites.”
In my case I am fascinated by the evidence that historians and the so-called “higher” criticism has produced.  I have been clear that the evidence for redaction in the mms is strong, and I’m aware that it’s highly unlikely that any of the actual apostles wrote the canonized gospels.  And my theology has evolved accordingly. 

“Would it persuade you to ignore the obvious problems with the water-walking claims?”
Because my faith is not predicated on miracle stories this analogy misses the mark.  I honestly don’t care if Jesus walked on water.
“I sense another common misperception at work here: that non-belief entails hopelessness and/or purposelessness and/or meaninglessness and/or a lack of wonder and transcendence, and without religion those would engulf one’s life.”
I know far too many atheists to think this way.  Simply watching Sagan’s Cosmos should dispel any Christians of this myth.  His child-like sense of awe and wonder at the marvels of the galaxy are poetic and beautiful.


Josh Foreman - #37228

October 28th 2010

“the suggestion that I am “broken” may be a new low.”
Perhaps you read too quickly.  I offered three possible explanation for atheism.  The first two I rejected in favor of the third: “I suspect it’s more to do with personality and hopes.”
And if you think that “Nobody on Earth would think that “atheists are a more highly evolved form of humanity” you must have some very sophisticated friends, because I’ve run across this sentiment time and time again.  Do you hang out on any atheist forums?  It’s quite palpable. 
“The reason I bring this up is to help you become aware of your prejudices”
I sincerely appreciate this.  The whole statement was a red herring anyway… I was just ruminating.  But I assure you, I don’t have the prejudice you think I do.  I know from observation that atheists are moral respectable, purpose-driven individuals who help their communities, etc etc.  I do apologize for inadvertently insulting you through my sloppy writing.


Frank S - #37234

October 28th 2010

Josh, I don’t have a “materialistic ontology”. I am only advocating for some basic standards of reasonableness. In order to see the absurdity of your accusation, just imagine the hypothetical follower of the Holy Hungarian accusing us of having a materialist ontology. A better example would be a member of a cargo cult who, after listening to our evidence concerning the origin of his beliefs, accuses us of having a materialist ontology.

There are some raw facts which the cargo cult member refuses to accept. That doesn’t make him primitive or stupid or less evolved. He just has some beliefs which are unreasonable to hold in the face of strong evidence. As humans we cling to our beliefs, especially those which are somehow tied to our identity. This is a phenomenon present in all of us. Some beliefs just happen to be more obviously wrong than others.

Regarding the “broken” comment, I call them as I see them. I interpreted your third “personality and hopes” option in the context of your suggestions that atheists may be insensitive to “big questions” or “ultimate concerns”, another bias indicator. Imagine someone suggesting, even in jest, that Jews or Hindus might be “broken”. Crazy stuff, but I’ll let it go.


Frank S - #37237

October 28th 2010

Josh, if your faith does not depend upon miracles then I would call you a deist, which is a fully reasonable position. This is a typical problem with the label of Christian. It almost universally means belief in miracles (at least the Resurrection), but there is a minority of self-described Christians for whom all miracles are metaphor. Or mystery, or something.


Josh Foreman - #37242

October 28th 2010

“I don’t have a “materialistic ontology”.

So you believe that there are ontologically real things apart from the material universe? 

“A better example would be a member of a cargo cult who, after listening to our evidence concerning the origin of his beliefs, accuses us of having a materialist ontology.”

I can see why you think my accusation is absurd.  This is not an argument I’m making.  I am not saying that there is an indisputable fact that I will simply ignore in favor of my current belief.  In fact I’ve stated explicitly that historic and critical work has convinced me to change my opinion on certain theological matters. 

“your suggestions that atheists may be insensitive to “big questions” or “ultimate concerns””

I appreciate you letting this go, but I want to emphasize the fact that I made no such suggestion.  I said: “An atheist may not feel a pressing need for ultimate concerns such as origins of time/space/matter or a transcendent grounding for morality and personal purpose, but most people do.”

I try to avoid statements because they usually come back to bite you in a debate.


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