Biblical and Scientific Shortcomings of Flood Geology, Part 1
"The BioLogos Forum" is pleased to feature essays from various guest voices in the science-and-religion dialogue. Please note the views expressed here are those of the author, not necessarily of The BioLogos Foundation. You can read more about what we believe here.
Today's entry was written by
Gregg Davidson.
Dr. Gregg Davidson is a Professor in the Department of Geology and Geological Engineering at the University of Mississippi and conducts original research in geochemistry and hydrogeology, often employing radiometric dating methods to determine the age of groundwater and sediments. In 2009 he published a book about his keen interest in integrating a lifetime of studying geology with his firm conviction about the infallibility of God’s Word, When Faith & Science Collide – A Biblical Approach to Evaluating Evolution and the Age of the Earth.
Today's entry was co-authored by Ken Wolgemuth.
Dr. Ken Wolgemuth is an Adjunct Professor at the University of Tulsa and a Petroleum Consultant teaching short courses on petroleum geology and “Geology for the Non-Geologist.” Over the last 10 years, he has developed a keen interest in sharing the geology of God’s Creation with Christians in churches and seminaries.
This is the first in a four part series taken from Gregg Davidson and Ken Wolgemuth's scholarly essay "Christian Geologists on Noah’s Flood: Biblical and Scientific Shortcomings of Flood Geology".
As Christians and geologists, we frequently encounter people with stories of storm tossed and shipwrecked faith that started when they began to wrestle with apparent conflicts between science and the Bible. The stories have a common thread. The Bible, they were told, clearly teaches the earth was created a few thousand years ago with life forms fashioned more or less as we find them today. Because the earth is very young, the incredibly complex sequence of rock, sediment, and fossils found on our planet must have been deposited in a very short period of time. Noah’s Flood, as the only plausible causal agent, was obviously a global and violent event. Theories of an ancient earth and adaptation of life forms, they were further informed, have been constructed on flimsy evidence created by atheistic scientists searching for ways to expunge God from modern culture. But as these sojourners began to explore and understand the actual evidence for an ancient earth, they found themselves increasingly convinced of its legitimacy, and thereby increasingly questioning the veracity of their faith – many to the point of relegating Christ to just another wishful myth.
It is our conviction that these stories of strained or lost faith derive not from an inherent unwillingness to trust the Bible, but rather from misguided teaching on the message of Scripture. Those insisting the earth is young are not simply putting their faith in God’s Word, they are putting their faith in their own particular interpretation of that Word. As such, an entirely unnecessary stumbling block to faith is created, where faith in Christ first requires rejection of sound science.
As we have prayed and studied this subject, we have felt God’s call to speak out against this misplaced stumbling block. We are sensitive, however, to the fact that when scientists speak on issues of faith, there is a natural suspicion that science will be regarded as the ultimate arbiter of truth, and Scripture will have to yield whenever conflict arises. It is thus important for us to state here that both of us ascribe to the authority and inspiration of Scripture, the reality and necessity of Christ’s death and resurrection, the existence of genuine miraculous events, and the truthfulness of the Biblical historical narratives. In our understanding, science will never trump Scripture, but by virtue of science being a study of God’s natural creation, it may occasionally assist in our understanding of God’s written Word. Where this has occurred historically and has been accepted by the Church, the invariable result has been the abandonment of an interpretation of some secondary importance, without any change in our understanding of the intended central message.
This phenomenon is illustrated well by the 17th century clash between Galileo’s claims that the earth revolves around the sun, and the multiple passages in Scripture that appear to clearly present a static earth as the physical center of God’s natural creation. The Bible tells us repeatedly that the earth is fixed upon its foundations (Ps 93:1, 104:5) and the sun rises and sets (Eccl 1:5, Ps 19:6). Within the context of the historical narratives (which we are not accustomed to interpreting in any figurative manner) we read statements about “the sun rising over the land” (Gen 19:23), and a miraculous event during a famous battle where “the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down a full day” (Josh 10:13). Likewise in the Levitical law, we find commands to complete the Passover sacrifice “when the sun goes down” (Deut 16:6).
God’s people had interpreted these verses for thousands of years to be authoritative statements about both spiritual and physical realms, and 17th century believers understandably struggled with allowing science to alter traditional interpretations. If God says the sun rises and the sun sets, how could it be otherwise?
Fast forward a few centuries, and we are now somehow quite content to have allowed science to alter our thinking on these verses, without abandoning notions of inerrancy or inspiration. The reason is simply because it was eventually recognized that the primary message of these verses was never on the nature of nature, but on the nature of man and his experience with his environment and his God. Solomon and Joshua accurately recorded their experience from an earthly perspective (sun rising and setting), and David praised God for holding the earth fixedly in His hand (Ps 93:1, 104:5), without requiring a meaning of fixity in space. The central message of these verses was apparent to readers before and after Galileo. Only a secondary interpretation, likely never intended by the writers, was cast off after scientific advances.
So what is the issue regarding Noah’s Flood? The modern debate centers around two questions. Was it truly global in extent, and can the Flood account for the earth’s complex geologic record? To address the first, it is worth being reminded of the Apostle Paul’s letter to the church in Rome where he makes a statement that “your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world” (Rom 1:8). Entire people groups existed at this time in China, Australia, and North and South America who knew nothing of the church in Rome. Though using wording that literally means the entire world population, Paul is clearly referring to the world known to him and his readers at the time.1 Paul speaks truthfully from his experience. Allowing for the possibility that Noah’s Flood encompassed all of known humanity without necessarily covering the entire planet is thus consistent with how other passages in Scripture are interpreted by Christians who believe the Bible is authoritative and trustworthy.
Our primary interest in this blog series is the second question, the widely promulgated notion that the Flood can account for the earth’s complex geology, and that all genuine Christians should accept this viewpoint.
Notes
1. Many Biblical scholars define a literal interpretation as one that takes into account the literary genre, figures of speech, context, and author/audience perspective in deriving the intended meaning. By this definition, poetry and allegory are literally interpreted as figurative. In this blog and in our article, our use of literal conforms to its more common definition where a literal interpretation is one that adheres to the precise definition of words without figurative meaning and without requiring additional context to understand.
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August 6th 2010
Mike,
I’m also (these days) not a big fan of the attempt to reconcile modern scientific finding with scripture interpretation, but it sure is a much better way to go than denying those findings and coming up with our own pseudo-science in order to preserve a pre-scientific interpretation of scripture.
The “reconcile” approach is at least not harmful to the witness of the gospel, imho—nor does it impede Christians from fully engaging in the scientific enterprise.
Reply to this commentAugust 6th 2010
Greg, I understand your message but I am trying to sell God to intelligent people.
I happen to come from a large very intelligent group and I realize that a high I.Q. does not help anyone find God.
But these people NEED GOD like everyone else.
Junk science drives these people away and I just want to counteract that.
Unfortunately not enough correlation with real science is being done.
I feel called to sort of preach to this group.
And to sell a message you MUST attract the attention.
Souls are at stake here and I am putting out the best arguments i can muster.
This high I.Q. group can be sold on salvation if given the right pitch, but sadly there is very little attempt to minister to them.
As for me I GO RIGHT AT THEM.
I love these people.
I hope to motivate a couple of other folks to do the same thing.
This web site should SPEND MORE EFFORT correlating scripture with REAL SCIENCE and spend less time ATTACKING JUNK SCIENCE.
Junk science is really an embarrassment to Christians but we want to save these people not laugh at them.
Let us unite in the truth of both science and the Bible.
The intelligent people are being “sold” an idea that belief in Genesis is a sign of stupidity.
The opposite is true.
Reply to this commentAugust 6th 2010
Conrad, I appreciate your desire to seek and save that which is lost.
If you wish to save these people, do like Jesus did - move around the argumentative mind (which is a seat of rebellion), and strike at the heart.
A method I find very effective is to start with the natural (anything that makes people ask the big questions - where did we come from, why are we here, where are we going). Then, transition to the Biblical view (“this is how I know the answer to this question”). Let them know that God will judge everyone. Ask them how they would fare in light of God’s perfect standards (the ten commandments are a great illustration, especially when coupled with Jesus’ exegesis “hatred is murder”, “lust is adultery”).
If they are honest (that is, convicted of sin), then they will beg you for the Gospel - no need to sell it!
Reply to this commentAugust 6th 2010
Yeah Ned in the last analysis they feel God’s presence.
I just want to dismantle some of the barriers ,. that prevent educated people from seeking God,....AND THEY ARE FALSE BARRIERS.
A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE ARE CONVINCED THAT THE BIBLE HAS BEEN EXAMINED AND PROVEN TO BE RIDICULOUSLY STUPID.
The Scopes trial did a lot of that.
And you want to know an ironic thing about that?
It happened in 1924 and that same year Hubble and Lemaitre and others were revealing evidence of creation,...i.e. The Big Bang.
But the atheists “sold” their narrative better.
HEY I AM GOING TO BE OUT A FEW DAYS.
I AIN’T MAD AT Y’ALL AND I AM NOT DISCOURAGED OR DISSUADED..
I SHALL RETURN,.... later this month,.... AND CONTINUE IN MY EFFORT TO MINISTER TO THE INTELLECTUAL ,...AND PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL COMMUNITY.
[Put yourself in there somewhere!]
Keep writing that funky stuff and I will rejoin you later.
Reply to this commentGod bless your efforts.
August 6th 2010
Thanks for the links, Anthony and Larry.
I’ll also be (mostly) away for a couple weeks. I expect lots of good articles and discussions to read when I return
Reply to this commentAugust 6th 2010
Anthony,
Thanks you for your links @24643
I have some familiarity with Todd Wood and Paul Garner who seem to often work together and are among the most honest and reasonable YECs. ( Todd’s work on discovering God’s created “kinds” is not really directly relevant to flood geology. It would be good to have a post here that addresses these issues here.)
I found the two links about the Heaton paper ‘Recent developments in young-earth creationist geology’ most interesting, They both admit the difficulty of YEC models are having. In Garner’s review Heaton is called ‘one of our most fair minded and insightful critics.’ So what might we make of Heaton’s conclusion that ‘An examination of these efforts demonstrates the anti-scientific nature of using the Bible as a non-negotiable framework for earth history’ (in the abstract.)
I do think however that you are correct in criticizing the authors of this post on at least one point, (and here I am referencing the end of the paper linked to in the intro.) The Authors should have directly referenced the RATE project in their discussion of “Tree Rings and Varves.”
Reply to this commentAugust 7th 2010
So I try to be forgiving of minor errors and misstatements, but…
Copernicus! For the love of God, Copernicus! I’ve never even studied the history of science and I know that!
Reply to this commentAugust 7th 2010
@katz - #24834
Don’t be pedantic - the theory was Copernicus, but Galileo cornered the controversy market!
Reply to this commentAugust 7th 2010
Yes, but that’s a fact people don’t like to remember because it indicates that the theory itself wasn’t objectionable—it went essentially unargued for 60 years—it was Galileo and his repellent personality that was controversial.
Reply to this commentAugust 8th 2010
@katz - #24939
Yes and no - Copernicus offered little proof. Luther, for example, disparaged the idea in 1539, long before Galileo. By Galileo’s time, the Jesuits accepted it (at least privately, using it practically in navigation etc), and the Pope didn’t, but respected it enough to ask him to write a review. That’s where the “repellent personailty” came in, since he insulted the Pope in the book; his condemnation was largely for personal and political, not theological reasons.
That apart, it was because Galileo had observation evidence that the theological debate began. A parallel might be Lamarck, whose hypothesis though evolutionary didn’t capture the imagination and so didn’t force theologians to grapple with the issues as Darwin’s did.
Interesting article at www.contra-mundum.org/schirrmacher/galileo.pdf
Reply to this commentAugust 9th 2010
For an excellent treatment of why the Bible actually supports a local flood in Genesis, please see this web page:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html
Reply to this commentMarch 30th 2011
Among several problems I have with your link to “godandscience.org” the one that stood out to me was when Mr. Deem claims that the text says that “Noah could see the mountains in the distance, thus implying a local flood.” This is ludicrous and unfounded in the text.
Reply to this comment-B
August 10th 2010
A very good paper, especially the section on C-14 in successive varves. However, in relation to the same topic, I would still like to see an explanation for how fossils can be found spanning multiple varves in some cases. Defenders have argued that the fossilized animals would not dissolved by bacteria due to the low-oxygen conditions in the waters where the varves form, but YECs have claimed otherwise.
On the other hand, as both YECs and OECs have argued, there are cases where multiple layers of varves have been observed to have been laid down under a shorter period then normally allowed (say, 5 layers in 1 year instead of two).
Any suggestions?
Reply to this commentAugust 10th 2010
Christopher Svanefalk - can you give some references here?
I thought that one of the points of the paper is that occasional multiple and/or missing varves did not undermine the general point. Given that the data extends to 100000 years then even a consistent 5:1 error (which would be ridiculous) would cause a major problem for the YEC view.
Reply to this commentAugust 10th 2010
Dear MyGoatyBeard,
perhaps this will help (it is written from an OE perspective, responding to YEC claims)
http://www.answersincreation.org/clarkia.htm
Reply to this commentAugust 10th 2010
Ah that didnt work out too well! Sorry!
Try it here:
link
Reply to this commentAugust 10th 2010
Doesnt seem like the linking wants to work for me. You can copy-paste from my first answer instead, I apologize for any inconvenience.
Reply to this commentNovember 27th 2010
Can science and religion coexist peacefully? This is a good question to start an interesting discussion. See how it was answered by many smart people at my website:
http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/donotmix.html
Please share this link with others, when appropriate. Thank you in advance.
Ludwik Kowalski
Reply to this commentProfessor Emeritus
Montclair State University, NJ