A Rejoinder to Part II of Stephen C. Meyer’s Response to Francisco Ayala

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March 11, 2010 Related topics: Intelligent Design | Genetics |

"The BioLogos Forum" frequently features essays from The BioLogos Foundation's leaders and Senior Fellows. Please note the views expressed here are those of the author, not necessarily of The BioLogos Foundation. You can read more about what we believe here.

Today's entry was written by Darrel Falk. Darrel Falk serves as president of The BioLogos Foundation. He transitioned into Christian higher education 25 years ago and has given numerous talks about the relationship between science and faith at many universities and seminaries. He is the author of Coming to Peace with Science.

A Rejoinder to Part II of Stephen C. Meyer’s Response to Francisco Ayala

In Part 2 of Stephen Meyer’s response to Francisco Ayala’s critique of the Intelligent Design movement in general, and of Signature in the Cell in particular, Meyer focuses primarily upon Ayala’s statement that, “there are lots and lots of DNA sequences that are nonsensical.”

First, I would like to note that one cannot help but be impressed with how current Meyer is with regard to this literature. He cites ten articles from 2009 and three from this year. Clearly he and his colleagues are keeping up with the literature. This is just one example of why I have come to conclude that the ID movement ought to be considered a scientific movement.

Another example is Meyer’s book itself. In the book, Meyer, quite eloquently in my opinion, demonstrates that his approach fits within the bounds of how historical science is done. The fact that he spends time carefully analyzing the scientific literature for evidence of function is further indication that they are doing science. Their Intelligent Design model predicts that the DNA in the human genome (and other organisms) is fully functional, and Meyer and his colleagues are carefully scrutinizing the scientific literature to see if it is.

Although I am convinced they are wrong on many counts, I appreciate that they are doing science (however good or bad it is) and I hope the scientific community will engage them on the basis of that science and not on the basis of rhetoric (theirs and ours!). Elements of their work are clearly rhetorical, and I alluded to one example of that in yesterday’s post. Regretfully, there are times when I slip into that mode as well. I am trying my best to stay focused on the issues—if you catch me doing otherwise, you should feel free to call me on it.

Since Meyer used technical language unfamiliar to many non-scientists, I want to refer readers to an excellent new book, Inside the Human Genome: A Case for Non-Intelligent Design, by leading evolutionary biologist, John Avise. Like Ayala, Avise argues that biology informs theism, and most certainly does not negate it. If there is any one science-related book I would urge our audience to read in the upcoming year it would be this one. Avise clearly lays out the philosophical and theological work we Christians have yet to do, based on detailed but accessible descriptions of genomic data.

Meyer spends considerable time disputing what he calls “Ayala’s claim” that Alu1 sequences are distributed randomly. I’ve reread Ayala’s post several times trying to find what makes Meyer think Ayala claimed this. Put simply, he doesn’t say it nor does he imply it. He does say that on average there are about 40 copies of Alu sequences between every two genes, but this is simply a fact. Meyer spends considerable time trying to show Ayala is wrong about something he didn’t say. I don’t know why he does this and don’t consider to be helpful to the discussion.

There are about a million Alu sequences (see footnote) scattered around the human genome. They constitute about ten percent of all letters in the DNA code. Meyer points out that a number of functional regions have been discovered within Alu sequences. He’s right. But this comes as no surprise to biologists—evolutionary theory certainly predicts that some portion of these sequences would take on useful functions over time.

However, there is no question that many Alu sequences really have no function. As Avise explains in his book, and as Ayala mentions in his post, most of these elements are almost certainly of no value to cells. On the contrary, these extra sequences can cause serious problems. In Avise’s words, “To the best of current knowledge, many if not most of these repetitive elements contribute not one iota to a person’s well-being. They are well-documented however to contribute to many health disorders.”

Alu is only one of many kinds of repetitive elements in the genome. The actual number of DNA letters devoted to all mobile elements (those which move from one location in the genome to another) is at least 1.3 billion! That’s 45 percent of the genome. In addition, non-mobile elements represent another huge portion.

For sure, plenty of magnificent “sense” is scattered throughout the genome, coding for absolutely marvelous things—like how to make the brain, for example—but this still doesn’t negate the fact that almost certainly much, if not most, of the DNA plays no role, and in many cases can be harmful.

Since many of our readers are not experts and they depend upon authorities, I would like to conclude with a request. If you hold a faculty position in molecular biology at a research university (or you know of someone who does), and you think that my portrayal (or Avise’s and Ayala’s) of the current state of our knowledge about this is inaccurate, please send an email to info@biologos.org. We will post the names of any dissenting molecular biologists who hold faculty positions in research universities on our website. I am aware that ID folk will simply say that such scientists will not respond because of the need to be clandestine in order to protect their careers. However, my experience is that tenured faculty are not afraid to say what they think; indeed it is that quality that especially distinguishes the faculty I have known over the years.

1. Alu is a short stretch of DNA code. There are three billion letters of code in the human genome. One Alu sequence is about 300 letters long. There are about a million copies of this short sequence scattered throughout the genome.

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Gordon J. Glover - #6790

March 14th 2010

In his book, Signature in the Cell, Meyer uses the sucess of Big Bang Theory, and the prdictions it made like cosmic background radiation and Hubble red shift, as examples of historical science.  He also uses the example of plate techtonics and radiometric dating.  So I would say that at least when it comes to the age of the earth / cosmsos, Meyer is not a history denier.

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Bilbo - #6819

March 14th 2010

Richard Sternberg’s rejoinder to Darrel Falk’s rejoinder:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/03/asking_darrel_falk_to_pick_a_n.html

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Bilbo - #6820

March 14th 2010

From Sternberg’s reply:

“So the true number of genes in our DNA is probably >450,000 + 25,000 = >475,000. What is more, these >450,000 genes cover more than 88.5% of our 3 billion genetic letters. That’s right—most, if not close to all, of our chromosomal DNA consists of different types of genes that have only recently been discovered.

How do these facts square with this comment made by Falk?


  but this still doesn’t negate the fact that almost certainly much, if not most, of the DNA plays no role, and in many cases can be harmful.”

Is he right?

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Nick Matzke - #6824

March 14th 2010

Sternberg is drastically overinterpreting his sources, the article he cites says that there *might* be *as many as* 450,000 genes, and Sternberg converts this to “probably” *more than* 450,000.  And the actual article does an analysis, and IIRC re-finds the few hundred known noncoding RNAs, and a few hundred more possible new ones, and doesn’t reach any dramatic conclusion about hundreds of thousands of others, and furthermore notes seriously the possibility that a lot of them are transcriptional noise.

In any event, the hypothesis that 85%+ of the human genome is actually RNA genes needs to explain why various vertebrates get by with only 10% as much.  Sternberg’s brain apparently doesn’t even have the bare capacity to acknowledge the existence of widely varying genome sizes, let alone the implications of this well-known fact for hypotheses like the idea that the genome is actually all genes even though it looks like half of it is derived from parasitic repetitive elements.

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Mike Gene - #6840

March 15th 2010

Apart from the comment about Sternberg’s brain, I think Nick’s point about the variability in genome sizes, coupled with the mass of repetitive elements, is a very powerful one.  In fact, it should be the very focus of discussion if one is to deny the existence of non-functional sequences.  Nick is not laying out some side issue or knee-jerk criticism; he is spelling out the real, core roadblocks. He’s saying, “Step back from arguments about this sequence or that sequence, from arguments about gene numbers, and look at the big picture.”  Put it this way.  If the entire human genome plays a functional role in the cell/organism, then why in the world does the puffer fish get by with a much more compact genome that is missing huge spans of “junk DNA?”  And why do salamanders have something like 40X more DNA than humans (if I recall correctly)?

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Arthur Hunt - #6884

March 15th 2010

the hypothesis that 85%+ of the human genome is actually RNA genes

Sternberg seems to be including two groups of “RNA genes” that are not consistent with his claims of function: 

1.  “RNA genes” derived from those parts of the genome that are transcribed, but whose RNA products are almost immediately broken down.

and 2. the parts of the genome that are actively silenced by small RNAs that are transcribed and converted to siRNAs and the like.

Remove these classes of “RNA gene” from the discussion and his 85% number is a large overestimate.

Also, I suspect he is double-counting, at least in the cases of non-coding RNAs that are derived from promoter regions but do not become canonical mRNAs.  Several of such cases have been discovered, but they are better viewed as a part of the corresponding protein-coding gene.

Some essays that touch on these matters to various extents:

http://aghunt.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/junk-to-the-second-power/

http://aghunt.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/strange-things-at-promoters/

http://aghunt.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/more-strangeness/

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Bilbo - #7093

March 17th 2010

I’ve noticed that Sternberg is continuing to argue his case: 

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/03/ayala_and_falk_miss_the_signs.html

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Bilbo - #7192

March 19th 2010

Glad to see the comment section is available again.  Sternberg continues his case here:


http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/03/beginning_to_decipher_the_sine.html#more

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Argon - #7265

March 20th 2010

Does anyone else find it odd that Sternberg seems to approach the genome from an almost pure selectionist point of view?

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glsi - #63580

July 30th 2011

Didn’t the term “junk DNA” only recently fall out of vogue?  Back in Darwin’s day didn’t they think the cell was just a little bit of goo that couldn’t possibly do very much on it’s own?  Doesn’t Professor Falk and the rest risk looking pretty silly when all that useless DNA winds up being something that they have no way of presently understanding?  If it were medically feasible I wonder if Dr. Falk would be willing to surgically remove all of his own “useless” Alu sequences.

Also a comment to Dr. Falk on his facile and cavalier assurance that tenured dissenters to Darwinism feel free to express their opinions about the matter in our universities:  I personally know a tenured university Chemistry professor who is not shy about sharing his own disbelief in mainstream Darwinism.  Although he has not been in danger of losing his tenured position, he has been personally ridiculed for his beliefs in a letter which has been circulated by the Biology dept. at this university.  Probably, a weaker individual would rather keep quiet than suffer that type of personal attack.  Also, in Signature in a Cell, Dr. Meyer cites at least one example of a university professor being severley  sanctioned for his views on evolution.  Dr. Falk read the book so is he then dismissing Dr. Meyer as untruthful on that point?

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